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A joint European Army
To mostly dissolve european armies, and take all those assets into a new army paid and mobilized by all of Europe, and for the security of all of Europe.
The armies are really expensive to maintain, so if we made a joint European army we could drastically reduce costs and also create a joint force with soldiers and equipment from all over Europe that would be taken seriously by the rest of the world, as right now we appear as weak and divided to major powers like Russia and China.
It would also help to create a sense of camaraderie between Europeans who would be proud of their army as a whole and not just from their nations, a huge step in the unification of Europe, to keep all European citizens safe.
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Café-débat autour du rôle de l’UE dans la lutte contre le terrorisme et sur la construction d’une armée européenne
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{"body":{"en":"To mostly dissolve european armies, and take all those assets into a new army paid and mobilized by all of Europe, and for the security of all of Europe.\n\nThe armies are really expensive to maintain, so if we made a joint European army we could drastically reduce costs and also create a joint force with soldiers and equipment from all over Europe that would be taken seriously by the rest of the world, as right now we appear as weak and divided to major powers like Russia and China.\n\nIt would also help to create a sense of camaraderie between Europeans who would be proud of their army as a whole and not just from their nations, a huge step in the unification of Europe, to keep all European citizens safe.\n\nLink: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","machine_translations":{"bg":"Да разпусне най-вече европейските армии и да вземе всички тези активи в нова армия, платена и мобилизирана от цяла Европа, както и за сигурността на цяла Европа. Армиите са наистина скъпи за поддържане, така че ако направим съвместна европейска армия, бихме могли драстично да намалим разходите и също така да създадем съвместна сила с войници и оборудване от цяла Европа, която да бъде взета сериозно от останалия свят, тъй като в момента изглеждаме като слаби и разделени на големи сили като Русия и Китай. Това би спомогнало и за създаването на чувство за приятелство между европейците, които биха се гордели с армията си като цяло, а не само с техните народи, огромна стъпка в обединението на Европа, за да се гарантира безопасността на всички европейски граждани. Връзка: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","cs":"Většinou rozpustit evropské armády a vzít všechna tato aktiva do nové armády placené a mobilizované celou Evropou a pro bezpečnost celé Evropy. Armády jsou opravdu drahé udržet, takže pokud bychom vytvořili společnou evropskou armádu, mohli bychom drasticky snížit náklady a také vytvořit společnou sílu s vojáky a vybavením z celé Evropy, kterou by zbytek světa bral vážně, protože právě teď jsme slabí a rozděleni na hlavní mocnosti, jako je Rusko a Čína. Pomohlo by také vytvořit pocit přátelství mezi Evropany, kteří by byli hrdí na svou armádu jako celek a nejen ze svých národů, což je obrovský krok k sjednocení Evropy, aby byli všichni evropští občané v bezpečí. Odkaz: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","da":"For det meste at opløse de europæiske hære og tage alle disse aktiver ind i en ny hær, der betales og mobiliseres af hele Europa, og for sikkerheden i hele Europa. Hærene er virkelig dyre at opretholde, så hvis vi lavede en fælles europæisk hær, kunne vi drastisk reducere omkostningerne og også skabe en fælles styrke med soldater og udstyr fra hele Europa, som ville blive taget alvorligt af resten af verden, da vi lige nu fremstår som svage og delte med stormagter som Rusland og Kina. Det ville også bidrage til at skabe en følelse af kammeratskab mellem europæere, der ville være stolte af deres hær som helhed og ikke kun fra deres nationer, et stort skridt i Europas forening, for at beskytte alle europæiske borgere. Link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","de":"Hauptsächlich europäische Armeen aufzulösen und all diese Vermögenswerte in eine neue Armee zu bringen, die von ganz Europa bezahlt und mobilisiert wird, und für die Sicherheit ganz Europas. Die Armeen sind wirklich teuer zu halten, also wenn wir eine gemeinsame europäische Armee bilden, könnten wir die Kosten drastisch senken und auch eine gemeinsame Truppe mit Soldaten und Ausrüstung aus ganz Europa schaffen, die vom Rest der Welt ernst genommen würde, da wir im Moment als schwach und in große Mächte wie Russland und China gespalten erscheinen. Es würde auch dazu beitragen, ein Gefühl der Kamaraderie zwischen Europäern zu schaffen, die stolz auf ihre Armee als Ganzes wären, und nicht nur von ihren Nationen, ein großer Schritt in der Vereinigung Europas, um alle europäischen Bürger sicher zu halten. Link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","el":"Να διαλύσει ως επί το πλείστον τους ευρωπαϊκούς στρατούς και να μεταφέρει όλα αυτά τα περιουσιακά στοιχεία σε ένα νέο στρατό που θα πληρώνεται και θα κινητοποιείται από όλη την Ευρώπη, και για την ασφάλεια όλης της Ευρώπης. Οι στρατοί είναι πραγματικά δαπανηροί να διατηρηθούν, οπότε αν δημιουργούσαμε έναν κοινό ευρωπαϊκό στρατό θα μπορούσαμε να μειώσουμε δραστικά το κόστος και επίσης να δημιουργήσουμε μια κοινή δύναμη με στρατιώτες και εξοπλισμό από όλη την Ευρώπη που θα ληφθούν σοβαρά υπόψη από τον υπόλοιπο κόσμο, καθώς αυτή τη στιγμή φαινόμαστε αδύναμοι και χωρισμένοι σε μεγάλες δυνάμεις όπως η Ρωσία και η Κίνα. Θα βοηθούσε επίσης να δημιουργηθεί μια αίσθηση συντροφικότητας μεταξύ των Ευρωπαίων που θα ήταν υπερήφανοι για το στρατό τους στο σύνολό τους και όχι μόνο από τα έθνη τους, ένα τεράστιο βήμα στην ενοποίηση της Ευρώπης, για να διατηρήσουν όλους τους ευρωπαίους πολίτες ασφαλείς. Σύνδεσμος: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","es":"Disolver en su mayoría ejércitos europeos, y llevar todos esos activos a un nuevo ejército pagado y movilizado por toda Europa, y por la seguridad de toda Europa. Los ejércitos son realmente caros de mantener, por lo que si creamos un ejército europeo conjunto podríamos reducir drásticamente los costos y también crear una fuerza conjunta con soldados y equipos de toda Europa que sería tomado en serio por el resto del mundo, ya que en este momento parecemos tan débiles y divididos a grandes potencias como Rusia y China. También contribuiría a crear un sentimiento de camaradería entre los europeos que estarían orgullosos de su ejército en su conjunto y no solo de sus naciones, un gran paso en la unificación de Europa, para mantener seguros a todos los ciudadanos europeos. Enlace: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","et":"Enamasti likvideerida Euroopa armeed ja võtta kõik need varad uude armeesse, mida kogu Euroopa maksab ja mobiliseerib, ning kogu Euroopa julgeoleku nimel. Armeed on tõesti kallid hooldada, nii et kui me moodustame ühise Euroopa armee, saaksime oluliselt vähendada kulusid ja luua ka ühisjõu koos sõdurite ja varustusega kogu Euroopast, mida ülejäänud maailm tõsiselt võtaks, sest praegu näime me nõrkadena ja jagatuna sellisteks suurjõududeks nagu Venemaa ja Hiina. Samuti aitaks see luua tunnet eurooplaste vahel, kes oleksid uhked oma armee kui terviku, mitte ainult oma rahvaste üle, mis oleks tohutu samm Euroopa ühendamisel, et hoida kõik Euroopa kodanikud turvaliselt. Link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","fi":"Pääasiassa hajottaa Euroopan armeijat ja ottaa kaikki nämä varat uuteen armeijaan, jonka koko Eurooppa maksaa ja jonka se on mobilisoinut, ja koko Euroopan turvallisuuden. Armeijat ovat todella kalliita ylläpitää, joten jos tekisimme yhteisen eurooppalaisen armeijan, voisimme vähentää huomattavasti kustannuksia ja myös luoda yhteisen joukkojen eri puolilta Eurooppaa tulevien sotilaiden ja varusteiden kanssa, joihin muu maailma suhtautuisi vakavasti, kuten juuri nyt näytämme heikkoilta ja jakautuneina suurvalloille, kuten Venäjälle ja Kiinalle. Se auttaisi myös luomaan toveruuden tunteen sellaisten eurooppalaisten välille, jotka olisivat ylpeitä koko armeijastaan eikä pelkästään kansakunnistaan, mikä olisi valtava askel Euroopan yhdentymisessä, jotta kaikki Euroopan kansalaiset säilyisivät turvassa. Linkki: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","fr":"Pour la plupart dissoudre les armées européennes, et prendre tous ces moyens dans une nouvelle armée payée et mobilisée par toute l’Europe, et pour la sécurité de toute l’Europe. Les armées sont vraiment coûteuses à entretenir, donc si nous formons une armée européenne conjointe, nous pourrions réduire considérablement les coûts et créer une force commune avec des soldats et des équipements de toute l’Europe, qui serait prise au sérieux par le reste du monde, comme nous paraissons aujourd’hui faibles et divisés par de grandes puissances comme la Russie et la Chine. Cela contribuerait également à créer un sentiment de camaraderie entre des Européens qui seraient fiers de leur armée dans son ensemble et pas seulement de leurs nations, un grand pas dans l’unification de l’Europe, pour assurer la sécurité de tous les citoyens européens. Lien: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","ga":"Airm eorpacha a dhíscaoileadh den chuid is mó, agus na sócmhainní sin go léir a thabhairt isteach in arm nua arna íoc agus arna shlógadh ag an Eoraip ar fad, agus le haghaidh shlándáil na hEorpa ar fad. Tá na hairm an-chostasach chun iad a choinneáil, mar sin má rinneamar arm Eorpach comhpháirteach d’fhéadfaimis costais a laghdú go mór agus fórsa comhpháirteach a chruthú le saighdiúirí agus trealamh ó gach cearn den Eoraip a ghlacfadh an chuid eile den domhan go dáiríre, mar is léir anois go bhfuilimid lag agus deighilte idir cumhachtaí móra amhail an Rúis agus an tSín. Chuideodh sé freisin le braistint chamaraderie a chruthú idir Eorpaigh a bheadh bródúil as a n-arm ina iomláine agus ní amháin as a náisiúin, céim ollmhór in aontú na hEorpa, chun gach saoránach Eorpach a choinneáil slán. Nasc: Https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","hr":"Uglavnom raspustiti europske vojske i uzeti svu tu imovinu u novu vojsku koju plaća i mobilizira cijela Europa, kao i za sigurnost cijele Europe. Vojske su stvarno skupe za održavanje, pa ako smo napravili zajedničku europsku vojsku mogli bismo drastično smanjiti troškove i stvoriti zajedničku silu s vojnicima i opremom iz cijele Europe koju bi ostatkom svijeta ozbiljno shvatili, jer se sada pojavljujemo kao slabi i podijeljeni na velike sile poput Rusije i Kine. To bi također pomoglo stvoriti osjećaj prijateljstva među Europljanima koji bi bili ponosni na svoju vojsku u cjelini, a ne samo iz svojih naroda, što je ogroman korak u ujedinjenju Europe, kako bi svi europski građani bili sigurni. Poveznica: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","hu":"Főleg az európai hadseregek feloszlatása, és az összes vagyon egy egész Európa által fizetett és mozgósított új hadseregbe, valamint egész Európa biztonsága érdekében. A hadseregeket nagyon drága fenntartani, így ha közös európai hadsereget hozunk létre, drasztikusan csökkenthetnénk a költségeket, és közös haderőt hoznánk létre Európa minden részéről katonákkal és felszerelésekkel, amelyeket a világ többi része komolyan veszne, mivel jelenleg olyan gyengének és nagyhatalmaknak, mint például Oroszországnak és Kínának tűnnénk. Hozzájárulna továbbá az európaiak közötti bajtársiasság érzésének kialakulásához, akik nem csupán nemzeteikből, hanem egész hadseregükből is büszkék lennének, ami Európa egységesítése felé tett hatalmas lépés lenne, hogy minden európai polgár biztonságban legyen. Link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","it":"Per lo più sciogliere gli eserciti europei, e portare tutti quei beni in un nuovo esercito pagato e mobilitato da tutta l'Europa, e per la sicurezza di tutta l'Europa. Gli eserciti sono davvero costosi da mantenere, quindi se facessimo un esercito europeo congiunto potremmo ridurre drasticamente i costi e creare una forza congiunta con soldati e attrezzature provenienti da tutta Europa che sarebbero presi sul serio dal resto del mondo, come al momento sembriamo deboli e divisi a grandi potenze come la Russia e la Cina. Contribuirebbe inoltre a creare un senso di cameratismo tra gli europei che sarebbero orgogliosi del loro esercito nel suo insieme e non solo delle loro nazioni, un passo importante nell'unificazione dell'Europa, per proteggere tutti i cittadini europei. Link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","lt":"Daugiausia likviduoti Europos armijas ir visus šiuos išteklius perkelti į naują armiją, kurią moka ir mobilizuoja visa Europa, ir visos Europos saugumą. Armijos yra tikrai brangios išlaikyti, todėl, jei sukurtume bendrą Europos kariuomenę, galėtume drastiškai sumažinti išlaidas ir taip pat sukurti bendras pajėgas su kariais ir įranga iš visos Europos, į kurias rimtai atsižvelgtų kitas pasaulis, nes dabar mes atrodome silpni ir suskirstyti į tokias didžiąsias valstybes kaip Rusija ir Kinija. Tai taip pat padėtų sukurti draugystės jausmą tarp europiečių, kurie didžiuotųsi visa savo kariuomene, o ne tik iš savo tautų, o tai būtų didžiulis žingsnis Europos suvienijimo link, kad visi Europos piliečiai būtų saugūs. Nuoroda: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","lv":"Galvenokārt likvidēt Eiropas armijas un nodot visus šos līdzekļus jaunā armijā, ko maksā un mobilizē visa Eiropa, kā arī visas Eiropas drošībai. Armijas ir ļoti dārgas, tāpēc, ja mēs izveidosim kopīgu Eiropas armiju, mēs varētu krasi samazināt izmaksas un arī radīt kopīgus spēkus ar kareivjiem un aprīkojumu no visas Eiropas, ko nopietni uztvertu pārējā pasaule, jo tieši tagad mēs izskatāmies kā vāji un sadalīti lielvarām, piemēram, Krievijai un Ķīnai. Tas arī palīdzētu radīt kamarārijas izjūtu starp eiropiešiem, kuri lepotos ar savu armiju kopumā, nevis tikai ar savām tautām, kas ir milzīgs solis Eiropas apvienošanā, lai nodrošinātu visu Eiropas pilsoņu drošību. Saite: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","mt":"Biex fil-biċċa l-kbira jxolji l-armati ewropej, u jieħu dawk l-assi kollha f’armata ġdida mħallsa u mmobilizzata mill-Ewropa kollha, u għas-sigurtà tal-Ewropa kollha. L-armati huma verament għaljin biex jinżammu, għalhekk jekk għamilna armata Ewropea konġunta nistgħu nnaqqsu drastikament l-ispejjeż u noħolqu wkoll forza konġunta ma’ suldati u tagħmir minn madwar l-Ewropa kollha li jittieħdu bis-serjetà mill-bqija tad-dinja, kif issa jidher bħala dgħajjef u maqsum ma’ setgħat ewlenin bħar-Russja u ċ-Ċina. Dan jgħin ukoll biex jinħoloq sens ta’ camaraderie bejn l-Ewropej li jkunu kburin bl-armata tagħhom kollha kemm hi u mhux biss min-nazzjonijiet tagħhom, pass kbir fl-unifikazzjoni tal-Ewropa, biex iċ-ċittadini Ewropej kollha jinżammu sikuri. Link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","nl":"Het grootste deel van de Europese legers ontbinden en al die activa meenemen in een nieuw leger dat door heel Europa wordt betaald en gemobiliseerd, en voor de veiligheid van heel Europa. De legers zijn echt duur om in stand te houden, dus als we een gezamenlijk Europees leger maken, zouden we de kosten drastisch kunnen verlagen en ook een gezamenlijke troepenmacht met soldaten en uitrusting uit heel Europa kunnen creëren die door de rest van de wereld serieus zou worden genomen, aangezien we nu als zwak en verdeeld over grote mogendheden zoals Rusland en China lijken. Het zou ook bijdragen tot het creëren van een gevoel van kameraadschap tussen Europeanen die trots zouden zijn op hun leger als geheel en niet alleen van hun naties, een enorme stap in de eenwording van Europa, om alle Europese burgers veilig te houden. Link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","pl":"Głównie rozwiązywać europejskie armie i przenieść wszystkie te aktywa do nowej armii opłaconej i zmobilizowanej przez całą Europę, a także dla bezpieczeństwa całej Europy. Armie są bardzo drogie do utrzymania, więc gdybyśmy stworzyli wspólną europejską armię, moglibyśmy drastycznie obniżyć koszty, a także stworzyć wspólne siły z żołnierzami i sprzętem z całej Europy, które byłyby traktowane poważnie przez resztę świata, ponieważ obecnie jesteśmy słabi i podzieleni na główne mocarstwa, takie jak Rosja i Chiny. Pomogłoby to również stworzyć poczucie koleżeństwa między Europejczykami, którzy byliby dumni ze swojej armii jako całości, a nie tylko ze swoich narodów, co stanowiłoby ogromny krok w zjednoczeniu Europy, aby zapewnić wszystkim obywatelom europejskim bezpieczeństwo. Link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","pt":"Para dissolver principalmente exércitos europeus, e levar todos esses recursos para um novo exército pago e mobilizado por toda a Europa, e para a segurança de toda a Europa. Os exércitos são realmente caros de manter, por isso, se fizermos um exército europeu conjunto, poderíamos reduzir drasticamente os custos e criar também uma força conjunta com soldados e equipamentos de toda a Europa que seria reguila a sério pelo resto do mundo, pois neste momento parecemos fracos e divididos em grandes potências como a Rússia e a China. Contribuiria também para criar um sentimento de camaradagem entre os europeus que se orgulhariam do seu exército no seu conjunto e não apenas das suas nações, um enorme passo na unificação da Europa, para manter todos os cidadãos europeus seguros. Ligação: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","ro":"Să dizolve în mare parte armatele europene și să ia toate aceste active într-o nouă armată plătită și mobilizată de toată Europa, precum și pentru securitatea întregii Europe. Armatele sunt foarte scumpe de întreținut, așa că, dacă am face o armată europeană comună, am putea reduce drastic costurile și, de asemenea, am putea crea o forță comună cu soldați și echipamente din întreaga Europă, care ar fi luate în serios de restul lumii, deoarece în momentul de față părem la fel de slabi și împărțiți de mari puteri precum Rusia și China. Aceasta ar contribui, de asemenea, la crearea unui sentiment de camaraderie între europenii care ar fi mândri de armata lor în ansamblu și nu doar de națiunile lor, un pas uriaș în unificarea Europei, pentru a proteja toți cetățenii europeni. Legătură: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","sk":"Väčšinou rozpustiť európske armády a vziať všetky tieto aktíva do novej armády platenej a mobilizovanej celou Európou a za bezpečnosť celej Európy. Armády sú naozaj drahé na udržanie, takže ak by sme vytvorili spoločnú európsku armádu, mohli by sme drasticky znížiť náklady a vytvoriť spoločné sily s vojakmi a vybavením z celej Európy, ktoré by zvyšok sveta bralo vážne, pretože práve teraz sa zdajú byť slabí a rozdelení medzi hlavné mocnosti, ako sú Rusko a Čína. Pomohlo by to tiež vytvoriť pocit kamarátstva medzi Európanmi, ktorí by boli hrdí na svoju armádu ako celok, a nielen zo svojich národov, čo je obrovský krok v zjednotení Európy, aby boli všetci európski občania v bezpečí. Odkaz: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","sl":"Večinoma razpustiti evropske vojske in vsa ta sredstva spraviti v novo vojsko, ki jo plača in mobilizira vsa Evropa, ter za varnost celotne Evrope. Vojska je zelo draga za vzdrževanje, zato bi lahko, če bi naredili skupno evropsko vojsko, drastično zmanjšali stroške in ustvarili skupno silo z vojaki in opremo iz vse Evrope, ki bi jo resno vzeli preostali svet, saj se zdaj zdimo šibki in razdeljeni na velike sile, kot sta Rusija in Kitajska. Prav tako bi pomagalo ustvariti občutek prijateljstva med Evropejci, ki bi bili ponosni na svojo vojsko kot celoto in ne le na svoje narode, kar je velik korak pri združevanju Evrope, da bi zaščitili vse evropske državljane. Povezava: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army","sv":"Att till största delen upplösa europeiska arméer, och att ta alla dessa tillgångar till en ny armé som betalas och mobiliseras av hela Europa, och för säkerheten i hela Europa. Arméerna är verkligen dyra att upprätthålla, så om vi gör en gemensam europeisk armé skulle vi drastiskt kunna sänka kostnaderna och även skapa en gemensam styrka med soldater och utrustning från hela Europa som skulle tas på allvar av resten av världen, vilket just nu verkar som svagt och delat med stormakter som Ryssland och Kina. Det skulle också bidra till att skapa en känsla av kamratskap mellan européer som skulle vara stolta över sin armé som helhet och inte bara från sina nationer, ett enormt steg i Europas enande, för att skydda alla europeiska medborgare. Länk: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army"}},"title":{"en":"A joint European Army","machine_translations":{"bg":"Съвместна европейска армия","cs":"Společná evropská armáda","da":"En fælles europæisk hær","de":"Eine gemeinsame europäische Armee","el":"Ένας κοινός ευρωπαϊκός στρατός","es":"Un ejército europeo conjunto","et":"Ühine Euroopa armee","fi":"Yhteinen eurooppalainen armeija","fr":"Une armée européenne interarmées","ga":"Comharm Eorpach","hr":"Zajednička europska vojska","hu":"Közös Európai Hadsereg","it":"Un esercito europeo congiunto","lt":"Bendra Europos armija","lv":"Kopīga Eiropas armija","mt":"L-Armata Ewropea konġunta","nl":"Een gezamenlijk Europees leger","pl":"Wspólna armia europejska","pt":"Um exército europeu conjunto","ro":"O armată europeană comună","sk":"Spoločná európska armáda","sl":"Skupna evropska vojska","sv":"En gemensam europeisk armé"}}}
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It is easy to dissolve the national military forces. A number of EU nations already did it, or at least downgraded their armed forces (calling it the peace dividend).
But it is difficult to build up armed forces. It takes years or decades. The EU has not even succeeded in building an expeditionary army (EU battle groups) in the past 20 years.
Having an army every country is just a waste of money, a possible European army could follow the example of Japan, a defense army to protect Europe and paid by all of Europe would be much better and cheaper as the logistics would be centralized.
In theory.
In practice, almost all countries have defense forces (even the states of the USA) because external security is the key responsibility of any government.
The EU is not a federal state. It cannot legitimately have armed forces. For collective defense, most EU countries have joined NATO.
If money and logistics is the problem, then a larger EU defense fund or a common defense budget would be a solution, along with an EU logistics centre.
Even a common nuclear deterrent (in submarines) could be feasible.
No, I only meant the nationality army, everything else about the American army is a bad example, alright then I will say the French foreign legion, they are a good example of what a great European army could be.
Link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FrenchForeignLegion
This could be a good start for an European Army, they would be trained in bases all around Europe.
OK, thank you for explaining. I agree that the French Foreign Legion could be expanded and transformed into a "European Legion". It has a long track record as an expeditionary army for overseas operations.
In contrast, the EU Battlegroups and EUFOR have been failures in the past, and the proposed European First Entry Force merely shows that the EU has not learnt much from these failures, but instead keeps repeating the same mistakes again.
But what is the external threat that warrants any action at the EU level? Is there any threat outside the EU borders that the national armed forces cannot handle on their own (or with little help from NATO)?
Well, my reasons are economic and sociological, if Europe had just one big unified army that would save a lot of money in costs, it would also make Europeans feel more united as a whole.
And there's also this about Russia: https://www.ft.com/content/90873607-8a8a-48fb-8cb0-3414e277bf25
Again, I agree that it would more cost-effective to have a single and mighty military force for the EU. However, I am afraid that it is very difficult to merge national armed forces, and it would take decades to build federal forces starting from the scratch.
To draw a parallel, the EU decided over 20 years ago that it would be nice to have a big single currency. It was quite easy to get rid of all small national currencies and introduce the euro. However, it did not lead to the convergence of national economies. On the contrary, there were financial crises, higher debt level, slower growth and all sorts of problems. Over time, these problems will be solved, but with pain and sorrow.
In the short term, I think it is better to start with a larger EU defense fund, a common defense budget, and an EU logistics center (for arms procurement, development, service, maintenance, warehousing, and delivery) to ensure that the EU Member States have access to meaningful weapon systems.
Nah, that would mean more wasted money on useless weapons and armies, if it doesn't save money then it's not worth it, maybe selling some key lands to American bases, they will take care of it, and also pay us money, then we would cut defense funds 50% all over Europe.
But cutting defense costs of all European countries 30%, and then joining the rest into one European army would be fine too, one strong enough army to defend Europe while also using the least amount of money.
The cost-benefit analysis should not focus only on costs; the benefits of defense spending also count.
The European NATO members have cut their defense spending by much more than 30% or 50% since the Cold War. In fact, most of them do not even meet NATO criteria of 2% of GDP now (e.g. Luxembourg 0.57%, Spain 1.02%, Belgium 1.12%…, as estimated for 2021).
https://www.statista.com/chart/14636/defense-expenditures-of-nato-countries/
The European NATO members are clearly free-riding, and relying on the USA for their defense.
Merging 27 national armed forces that use 24+ different languages of command, and men trained for different fighter jets, different submarines, different battle ships, different tanks, different artillery guns, different missiles, etc. will not work – especially under the command of EU bureaucrats and politicians.
If some European nations are not ready, willing and able to defend themselves, why would anyone else risk his life or limb to do so?
0,4% would be more than enough.
"If some European nations are not ready, willing and able to defend themselves, why would anyone else risk his life or limb to do so?" jajaja see this:
https://balticword.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/US-military-bases-in-Europe.jpg
Americans already do so, their soldiers spend their money here and patrol the place for free, even pay us a lot of money to be in small pieces of land used as military bases, we just need to allow them to waste more money in Europe while we cut down in military costs, and let them butt heads with Russia and China, and if they start cutting on money, then we could pretend to make deals with Russia, and they would start sending money again, its always been like this anyway.
And Europe IS willing and very much ready to defend itself, but that wastes a lot of money that could be used in better things, like lowering the taxes of research laboratories to allow them to hire more people, creating lots of research jobs.
But America also gains something though:
https://theconversation.com/why-does-the-us-pay-so-much-for-the-defense-of-its-allies-5-questions-answered-127683
It is hard to believe that EU citizens are ready, willing and able to fight for their country or continent.
According to a Gallup in 2015, only 11% of Japanese would fight for their country. The figures were not much higher for Germany and the Netherlands, nor elsewhere in Western Europe.
https://www.gallup-international.bg/en/33483/win-gallup-internationals-global-survey-shows-three-in-five-willing-to-fight-for-their-country/
EU Member States are not able to defend themselves, or the continent, because they lack military men, machines and money, or they are not obliged by Article 5 of NATO. To some extent, this is natural. Austria, Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovakia and Luxembourg do not need a national Navy. The Baltic and Balkan nations can hardly afford national Air Forces.
The EU institutions and agencies should procure union level public goods for defense.
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Independent countries and governments determine themselves what is enough.
Different nations spend different amounts on defense. For example, USA 3.52% or USD 811 billions, with Greece 3.82%, Croatia 2.79%, UK 2.29% and Estonia 2.28% easily exceeding the NATO criteria of 2% of GDP, while Iceland thinks that 0.00% is enough (no need for any military expenditure or armed forces).
The history of foreign military bases on ”independent” nations is interesting. After most European countries failed to stop Hitler and Stalin from invading their countries in WWII, the US and Soviet created military alliances (NATO and Warsaw Pact), with US and Soviet military bases all over the occupied Europe. Some still remain in place.
I agree that taxes are too high in the EU. The solution is easy: the governments should focus on their core responsibilities, spending taxes only on the provision of public goods (like defense). Private sector can produce everything else.
No, its not that taxes are high, its that people are fed up with wars and military costs, and don't bring up WWII 'cause most Americans are quite ignorant of the circumstances of every country during the war, the most fucked up case of all was in Spain.
Resume:
Franco was a bastard that with Germans weapons and Hitlers help annihilated the Republican government that had received help from Russia but too late, so they were all exiled to France or fusilated, then Franco imposed a king, the church, and took away all rights from women, and this man... died peacefully of old age even making his own movies, cause after Hitler died he licked the allies ases and they allowed him to remain, nowadays all his statues have been removed.
Important cases:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BattleofKrasny_Bor
Fascist Franco's troops stopped the Russians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Nueve
Exhiled Spanish Republicans were the first to get Paris to retake it.
You are right, it is not only taxes. The slow growth of GDP affects more the prosperity and prospects of the EU.
The Europeans should also show restraint in military matters, after having started two world wars. However, excessive restraint can be seen as weakness (by the US, Russia and China). Without hard power, the EU becomes a by-stander on the world stage, and even a target of attacks.
I referred to the aftermath of the WWII only to explain why there are foreign military bases in the EU. The US and SU set up their military bases on the western and eastern side of the Iron Curtain. China is now doing the same in different parts of the world.
Military history documents interesting events. I agree that the WWII pincer attack to encircle Leningrad is an important case to know. It was probably the costliest siege in the world military history based on the number of casualties (1 to 3.5 million). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SiegeofLeningrad
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The initial idea for a joint European Army gives a Wikipedia link to describe it.
”The European army or EU army are terms for a hypothetical army of the European Union... Currently, there is no such army, and defence is a matter for the member states.
In 2019, Germany and the Netherlands activated 414 Tank Battalion, the first that included soldiers from two EU countries. The battalion was created because Germany did not have enough soldiers, while the Netherlands lacked tank capability. This was described as a step towards a European army. The Franco-German Brigade in Alsace has been less successful due to greater linguistic and cultural differences.”
If 450 million EU citizens want to rely on USA (with 330 million citizens) or Russia (with 144 million citizens) for their defense, then NATO or Warsaw Pact are alternatives.
But I would not call it ”strategic autonomy” or a joint European Army.
me personally I have nothing against Russia as it helped Spain during its darker times, I just don't like some environmental decisions they are taking, but that's just Putin or private Russian companies, Russia as a whole has lots of good people, it would be awesome if Russia became a part of Europe.
Personally, I have nothing against Russians either. All Russians under the age of 25 would be welcome to visit the EU without visa requirements.
Even better, former Russian republics have already jointed the EU, including Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. Georgia and Ukraine have had some delays in their accession talks.
Occupied Königsberg could be a tuffer nut to crack. Maybe they could have a referendum in the same way as the Russians in the Crimean peninsula.
Russian Czars may not think that it would be awesome if Russia became part of Europe. They are more likely to think that it would be awesome if Europe became part of Russia.
Russia could then stretch from Atlantic Ocean to Pacific Ocean and from Arctic Ocean to Indian Ocean.
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