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#TheFutureIsYours Transversal and cross-cutting issues
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Trasformare l'Unione Europea in uno Stato federale a tutti gli effetti con:
- un'unica costituzione europea
- un unico esercito europeo
- leggi federali per tutti gli Stati
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Hello Fabio, I am Christine from Germany. If I understand you right, you would see it positive, if the EU would be a kind of United States of Europe, right?
This is also my opinion!!!! This would be good for all of us. 😎👍
All EU countries would be "just" states and all this prime ministers and chancellors would be "just" governors.. well I can live with that very well.
A real EU Unity would be also better for the foreign politic and defense too. It would give us more respect in the world, if there would be one person on the top and not 27. And so on...
I'm also in favor of an European Federation!
We would be in many aspects the most powerful country in the world.
Hello Christine. You are right, but I think now is possible keep the name "European Union" instead of "United States of Europe".
Hi Fabio! European Union sounds anyway better😎😊👍
I think European Federation works too
How about Republic of the United Europe? :)
However, we have to make sure that the united Europe is united on the right ideological foundations. There has to be more Europe, but the leaders of nation-states must be involved as well. Also, the European election system and the entire political system has to be renewed (e.g. European Government, President). It is a geopolitical fact that a real European Unity is necessary in order to successfully compete with China, the US, Russia, Turkey, etc.
It should be just
the FEDERATION
It's simple, short and timeless
Why only Fedration and not European federation?
Because in the future, someone outside Europe could become a Member State.
Why mention Turkey?
I think the people of Turkey are very in favor of being a part of an European entity.
The European model is an example in civilization for the Globe. If we do not allow to at least cover what is called Europe, maybe we need a new approach.
Our civilized way of society is not the most lean mean way of doing machine life. To compensate we need to go wide. Our surroundings needs carrots and our willingness. We need them as much as they need us. Or they migh jump in another boat.
Why mention Russia?
Just before the Crimea 2014 case etc., things were actually turning out quite well for Society. I noticed an increased cooperation in business between Europe and Russia (Most Russians are European).
Best of all - and by that most alarming for some with other aspirations as a succesfull Europe - was a common approach to space (Kourou), common infantery vehicle (Russia / France), development in shipbuilding, etc. What should naturally be together, went down the pipe.
We must in no way leave the naturally path. I hope it will return. I hope Europes civilized, justice seeking, social way of life will succeed.
Why Turkey? The country's leadership is making trouble in Armenia, Syria, Libya, Cyprus, Aegean Sea, East Med, etc. It is hostile towards the EU and Israel. The people of Turkey must remove Erdogan democratically (if they wish so) and a long healing process (incl. anti-Islamisation) must start until Turkey could even be considered to join the EU.
Why Russia? Putin's foreign policy is hostile towards Europe. However, that could change, if a strong and united Europe (with a considerable common army) would detach from the US, and determine its own foreign policy. Even then, Russia could not be considered friendly, but rather neutral at best.
I find it meaningful to spread our mentality here in Europe out to the corners and further. I do not find any other place on Earth - at least very few other places - where this will to justice, fairness, progress, decency etc are as pronounced as here. We are civilized !!!
Eg. Russia. For maybe 10 years ago, Russia was a serious member of the European board. They were steadfast on a no to death penalty and they have actually a great social security system. People might die of vodka, but housing and heat is not lacking. Russia is partly European, Russia has a long history with central and western Europe. We compliment each other. Our land is directly connected. We are not naturally enemies. I can list on day long. But just look at a map, to understand why we must do everything possible to embrace Russia.
A lot of the same arguments go for Turkey. And I agree with you about democracy, healing etc. But the longterm goal is to be in the same boat as Russia and Turkey.
I agree that a normal relationship would be very beneficial with both countries, but I would not go as far as entering such a tight alliance with them as the EU or the NATO. Also, we could maintain good relations with the US and China too, but I would like to see a united Europe standing on its on feet, and not depending on the US in everything.
I could summarise this way: we can like each other, but we don't have to share the same bed - if you know what I mean.
Russia is Europe minded! They have build the most beautifull city as close as possible to Europe - St. Petersborg. They descended from Swedish Vikings. Their vision has always pointed towards Europe. They have time and time again been disappointed because the greater powers in Europe have invaded them. Their people have been under authoritarian rulers almost always. My heart is with Russia. Be it one or the other ruler, the long term objective must be to embrace Russia. They want it, and so do the EU people in charge also - at least the ones who takes long term economy serious.
Must and will always have good relations with USA. The only trouble is rivalry. Rivalry over money, over power, who must adapt to who etc. There is never a thought of USA and Europe going different ways. So relations are there to stay.
But from an American stand point or view point, Europe will be way to over weight and solid if the relations between EU and Russia keeps growing. Who want to not be the fascinating one?
Russia is a vast land, stretching from the Pacific to the Baltic Sea, with tons of ethnic and cultural minorities. Perhaps, there are some, who are pro-European in St. Petersburg or Moscow, but that is a small minority of the total population. Russia could and should never be part of a tight European military and political alliance. However, we shall be friends and partners in certain matters (e.g. trade, disarmament).
Europe can be a global factor only, if united upon the right ideological basis, and if a common European army is created. Then, we shall be friends with Russia, allies with China, and dethrone the US as a self-assigned hegemonic superpower - thus achieving multipolarism. Quitting the NATO is also necessary, but only once the united Europe has a strong and capable army to defend itself.
I think you understate the people who want a free, fair, democratic life in an open and developed civilization - with focus on mother Earth. It is ironic that Europe is not the most believing part of the world, but seeks in moral to find a more fair and justified way of life, which let the weak live close to the strong. Which does speak on behalf of the voices that are often not heard. Which seeks peace. Diversity.
The tightness in EU - Russia relations? I hope we can over time (100 years or more) together change the world towards all and more of what I wrote above. I seriously mean that we need closer relations with Russia. I suggest a common marked from Lisabon to Vladivostok!
I will never ever agree on quitting Nato or dethrone US. I think we can live in a beautiful symbiosis with all you mentioned. But in my dreams, I want AU and USAN to be rich too. It is only fair to let everybody have a chance. The spreading of wealth is essential and good hearted.
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Pro vznik Evropské federace je potřeba mít jeden společný úřední jazyk. Ideální varianta je ESPERANTO nebo nějaký jiný uměly jazyk, který nemá žádnou vazbu na již existující stát. Společná řeč nás spojí více než cokoliv jiného.
To create a European Federation, it is necessary to have one common official language. The ideal variant is ESPERANTO or some other artificial language that has no connection to an existing state. Common ground unites us more than anything else.
What about a federal State which like Switzerland model, simply includes all the official languages of all member States ?
Another idea would be to introduce English (because it is the world language) as a second official language in addition to the respective mother tongue.
I don't think forcing people to learn a new language from scratch is a good idea.
English seems to be the logical choice as it's the first language in the world and most people already speak it.
Here is an interesting discussion about it: We need a common european language
How about the language, which is the language of Europe since the Roman Republic outgrew Italia? Latin is the root of many people in the Mediterranean and it is very European. However, introducing it on short-term is not viable, as many do not speak Latin, but it is possible on long-term. In the meantime, English, French, and German are sufficient, as they are the most widely spoken languages in the EU.
I could be wrong, but the idea of having Latin as the only language, I find it rather difficult at the moment, because the actual EU States who can find common ground of identity with the introduction of Latin are: Italy, Spain, France, Portugal and Romania, for the descendant towards the Romance languages. And what about the other States?
What do you think about a model like swiss one instead?
Each State maintains its official language which is also recognized at the European institutional level, while it changes at the local level.
For example: a citizen of Spain who wants to write to the European Parliament he/she can easily do it in spanish.
If, on the other hand, the same citizen moves to another State, such as Estonia, and has to contact a municipal office, for example to request a residence certificate, it is Estonia that independently decides in how many languages the document can be issued and in how many languages the local institutions can communicate or be contacted.
Local languages should be used locally, no doubt about that. However, the language of European administration should be narrowed down to as few as possible, because it is costly and unnecessary. English is important and widely spoken as a learned language in the EU, but Latin languages and German are also spoken by many - especially as a mother tongue, but also as learned. If we want to switch from English to something else on the long-term, then Latin would be ideal.
I think every language should be official in their respective area. But some of the most important ones could serve as the languages for the administration of the whole union. These would be: English, French, Spanish, Italian, German, Polish. And maybe Turkish in the future, if Turkey will ever join.
The long time goal is an EU - USA close cooperation. But first we need the strong EU.
I fully agree that if we cannot communicate, everything else is a waste of time and money.
As USA are maybe an economical rival, they are also our allies and friend. There fore the choice of common language is easy. English!
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Can I spam my practical alternative?
Compromise proposal on treaty change
There i'm proposing a compromise. It's very complex, i'm trying to please everyone.
Why continue to rely on the Treaties when you can aim for a single European constitution with the same laws for all and simplify everything ?
It's a compromise. You have no choice then to compromise, you don't have the votes.
I'm proposing there neutrality, so that we can have a unified army.
A fiscal union with UBI and economic liberalism clauses.
Confederation instead of federation.
These are meant to be compromises, giving something to everyone, left/right/nations. It's an attempt, to build some common ground.
Unless you think you can find a supermajority in every EU country in favor of a federation with no heavy compromises. Outside the federalist bubble, federation is a hard sell. Even federalists them selves don't agree with the details.
I'm not saying that what i'm proposing is the perfect compromise. What you are proposing is simply utopian. I'm trying to be pragmatic.
For example, i'm proposing to ban nuclear power. Because if there's a major accident, the political system of the EU will not be able to handle it. In exchange, the pro nuclear countries get financial compensation. My proposal might not fly.
Utopia ? If you don't want or just don't like the idea that there could be a European constitution, that's okay.
Utopia ? If you don't want or just don't like the idea that there could be a European constitution, that's okay.
At this moment I find far from pragmatic to keep the Treaties in place, risking to foment misalignments and inequalities, when you can simply have a single constitution and federal laws for all EU citizens and a more understandable and efficient functioning of the European institutions.
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Tout à fait d'accord. Nous pourrions avoir toutes les langues officielles comme en Belgique. Il faudrait également créer un sénat où chaque région (les anciens états que nous connaissons aujourd'hui) sont représentées à égalité, voter pour un président et supprimer le conseil européen qui est un frein à toute avancée européenne.
Pour avoir vécu en Belgique, je sais que la question des langues est très sensible. Les Flamands font une fixation contre le français, qui était la langue de la bourgeoisie, alors que le néerlandais était la langue du peuple.
La Suisse n'est pas un meilleur exemple car 70% du pays est germanophone - une langue est donc dominante de fait au niveau fédéral.
Un Europe fédérale aura impérativement besoin d'une langue officielle qui ne peut pas être celle d'un des "grands" pays ni, à mon avis, l'anglais.... au moment où les Anglais nous quittent.
Profitons du Brexit pour tenter une solution novatrice: l'Espéranto - basé en grande partie sur nos langues européenne - facile à apprendre, facile à utiliser. Avec 450 millions de locuteurs au sein de l'UE il s'imposera vite sur la scène internationale comme une des grandes langues mondiales de communication.
I see that the English translation of my comment dated 25/4 wrongly translated ESPERANTO into SPAIN! I am suggesting to use ESPERANTO as a common language and not SPANISH event though Spanish is a beautiful language.
Fabio, I think you and I may have very similar ideas on reforming Europe. I proposed my idea of "Enlightened Europism" as well. I am more than happy to discuss this topic in more depth, as the political union of Europe is surely the most important question for us Europeans.
Soha, soha - reméljük ez soha nem valósulhat meg! Ez az elképzelés a szennyvízcsatornákhoz hasonló katyvaszt eredményezne. Az "összeöntést" megelőzően szennyvíz alkotóinak - külön- külön - mindegyiknek volt jellege.
Az USA olvasztótégelye az ékes bizonyíték arra, hogy a "kohó" nem működik. De nem kell messzire menni, elég csak Svájcra hivatkozni. Alig 50 négyzetkilométer 26 kanton féltve őrzött jogokkal és nyelvvel! Ráadásul még 1979. évben is keletkezett új kanton!
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what we do need to open our hand from national soveranity for a giant who dont listen us? Because this is the truth, europe is a deaf giant who dont listen the people's ideas. Well, ok, they just listen the ideas that they would like.
For exemple: its more than clear that europeans wanna less migration, and what european comission makes? A pact that "will improve our hability to have more migrants".
A federalist country will be just worse for everyone, specially because you're a italian, and italians have very different ideas from nordic people, soooo what will happen? how we will decide this culture differences? Thtas why in fact we need more soveranity
Can you tell me how often does the government in your country listen to you?
Federation does not mean the dictates of a unified culture.
For me, federation means that things that do not work well at the state level or are inefficient will be better done by the federation.
For example, the federal judiciary, the federal prosecutor's office, federal investigators, the federal police /for selected cases/, would undoubtedly be without corruption and the influence of criminals. Which in the end will bring more security to our daily lives.
The federal army would certainly stop the migration. There would certainly not be a war around Europe, such as in Libya, Syria, ... Is there a war around the US? Well, it's not. No war means no migration.
A federation based on a presidential system would make foreign policy easier and faster. Now everything takes a long time, which means that sometimes it can be too late.
Replying your 1º comentary: When we elect people who we wanna they listen, that's a fact, unless if your country is under a parlamentary coup for exemple: Italy, people wanna Salvini, he won in the majority of regional elections, but the estabilishment dont wanna him and the estabilishment has more votes in parlament, so they will not listen at all, but this is not a "rule", the rule is: people voting for who they wanna, this guy is elected and listen his electors, that's how a democracy works.
But if we have a federal system this will not work, because, THIS SIMPLY DONT WORK NOW, europe is untouchable, because it is so above of citizens. in fact they just see what burocrats wanna, not what we, the people wanna.
Just like I said: european people wanna less migrant and their proposal: Will just improve their hability to have more migrants.
And no, federation do not mean a unified culture, but having different cultures mean different life style
4º part of my replying to your 1º commentary: europe has no european army, but has frontex and NATO which is almost the same. Frontex should protect our borders, but they do not, the prove: many migrants entering in greece, but: In hungary and in Croacia, where there is no frontex, their local policies are going quite well on stopping migrant flood, sooo you see? Things work much better in a nacional level, not european level.
And there is no war in the US border, because Mexico and Canada are stable countries, and no, war doesnt mean migration, the majority of migrants come from Tunisia, Albania, Turkey, Algeria, Marroc, which are countries without war, they just come here because they wanna a better life, but hey: everybody wanna, thats why just who gets a visa should enter.
And no a european army wouldnt end with wars, NATO helpped in Lybia and Syria and... 10 years of war. As well we cannot just enter in countries and stop war this is unrealisct, another bullshit of your mind
My friend, all this is democracy. Politicians promise you everything, but after the election they will forget what they promised. Or, worse, keep the populist promises that brought them to power of rule.
I have one question for you - do you think that Germany is a country that works? My opinion is - very well. And you?
Second part of my replying to your 1º commentary: Just to let you know why nordic countries have strong social system and strong free market? Because in the Vikings time, it were almost impossible to plant there sooo they need to go abroad and stole food, thats how vikings born. How do they knew where was the best place to attack? Each village had merchants, these guys go first, see all weak points, return to the village, tell this to their warriors, they warrios go there and stole, they return with everything and divide among all village's families. You see? Its history and culture we cannot connect this to a SUPER MARKET CONTROLLED under Roman empire
For those who stay trying to plant something
Federal system of of government it´s not about you wrote
I have been living in a federal country for 22 years, I know what I mean ;). If you dont, go to study
Nice, but I don´t need study psychology, to know what you mean.
Italy is not a federal coutry. All this debate is about EU schould going to be federal. Union is not federal level. It is something else.
Frontex is not an army, right?
Sorry, but for me is this debate whith you over.
this is your opinion. There are plenty of people who dont oppose immigration.
Plenty, but not the majority ;)
Try to think about what the world will look like in 2050. Just reed this paper from PwC - How will the global economic order change by 2050?
In first 30 countries, there are only 5 countries from the EU. The economic power of the European Union will fall by 40% compared to the world. However, it will fall in almost everything. In research, technology as well as demography. Europe simply will no longer be the center of the world.
Only a federation could reverse this prognosis.
exactly
Europe is not the centre of the world anyway, and we can happily live with that, as long as people prosper. To make sure they do we need more decision making on the state level and less on the EU level. And by the way: Publicly funded universities generate top scientists as we have seen during the corona pandemic.
I agree. Thanks for bringing this up. It is a huge problem and for some reason the elite thinks the problem will go away if they hide it behind a curtain of silence (they control the media).
Thank you EU to have this site where opinions can be shared.
Replying your 2º comentary: And what is the problem of among 30 countries, just 5 EU members???? Just try to explain it to me, because I cannot understand how this is a problem. I lived outside of the EU for a long time, in a country totally outside of "the center of the world" and: Its quite good, I would say better then here, because there is no migrantion at all, good economical level, security (what we dont have here anymore because of terrorists) etc.
What we do need its a country who work, who have security, the people have a good "buy power", etc, not be "in the center of the world", to be honest I think one world without european countries in the center would be much better, this eurocentric vision of the world sucks.
And no, dont lie, EU will not fall in technology, research because we have 5 of the 10 top univercities in the world, this is our guarantee of a strong futur. Our demography will fall but this is quite good too, europe is full, buy one apartement is impossible
The problem is, that we are stagnating. Others are better. And that influence everything.
Please, tell me that 5 of the 10 top univercities in the world. Maybe it was sometime in the distant past. There is some rankings, but in no one EU has uni in first 10. For example in shanghai ranking we have 5 uni, but not in 10 - in 50!
And so what?
Une structure fédérale ET démocratique est impossible s'il n'y a pas de langue commune.
La meilleure langue serait l'espéranto, langue neutre, facile et précise (l'anglais est trop difficile pour la majorité des Européens)
If it can be useful, I share here a link to another idea:
Simbolo dell'Unione Europea
Simbolo dell'Unione Europea
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I would recommend everyone to endorse the most successful idea proposing a federal EU: Stronger together: A democratic European Federation
I can see the attraction of this idea, and appreciate its idealism. Big But: The EU as it has evolved is definitely not an example of democracy. The few referendums that were held were basically ignored or some cosmetic changes were made. If you 'Follow the money' though the EU makes sense. Lobbyism is unsurmountable by now, and there is no lobbying for the good of the people and welfare. I have come from where you and many people are: idealism and enthuisasm. And I am not a cynical or negative person by nature. But each decade has made me more critical of the EU, the disaster of covid vaccine purchase not really being a surprise but a last proof that this EU is good for nothing. We don't need it.
I do not agree with you. Please first of all point out a country outside of Europe that are more justisce seeking, social, civilized etc. I know there are a few, but entering the European continent, they are blooming, they are all around. Why not build on this?
Second, please diversify information. I think there are a truckload of bad info towards EU from an anglo saxon press. An anglo saxon movie production. An anglo saxon cable owner. An anglo saxon film series provider. An anglo saxon cartoonists. Etc.
The word brain wash is not absent today in 2021. Be sure to diversify your sources of information.
@Fabio
Ik ben 't met je eens.
(Bijna) alle thema's die relevant zijn binnen EU (en waarover wij nu ideeën mogen spuien) zijn federaal, en spelen in elk van lidstaten. De EU omvormen tot een federale staat , met een Europese Grondwet, is de enige manier om de EU een slagvaardig instrument te maken, en niet de logge bureaucratische moloch die het nu is. Boordevol goede voornemens en ideeën, maar onmachtig om die ook maar enigszins tot uitvoering te brengen. Dat laatste wordt vooral veroorzaakt door het egocentrische nationale denken van elke lidstaat, elk met een verlammend vetorecht op elk denkbaar Europees beleidsonderwerp.
Een EU zonder een federaal grondwettelijk juridisch, sociaal, maatschappelijk en economisch systeem zal altijd een trage, tandeloze tijger blijven.
Nog een toevoeging op mijn vorige bericht:
Een democratie hanteert als richtlijn dat een meerderheid van de stemgerechtigden de richting ervan bepaalt, met oog voor de minderheden. Een vetorecht ( waarbij 1 stem alle andere overruled) past niet in een democratie, maar in een dictatuur. De fundatie van het huidige Europarlement is dus op een niet-democratisch principe gebaseerd.
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"Az Európai Unió teljes jogú szövetségi állammá alakítása: Egységes európai alkotmány – egységes európai hadsereg " Ez nekünk nem kell!
Prečo nie?
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The EU has become an unstoppable train. The drivers do not listen to the citizen they are supposed to serve. There only obsession is satisfy their ego and grow their power and status evermore.
We must not forget that the EU is a free voluntary be part of or do not be part of club of like minded who sees the awful waste of money there are thrown on the streets of nationalism.
Together we can. Together we save. Together we are strong.
If the drivers have to listen to every voice before starting the bus, it will rust at the parking lot. Who serves who? Who has the freedom? We are in the same boat and what is decided is for the good of us all. Sometimes one must go ahead and create the path for us to follow. Or as they say in China, we will all become rich, but some will become rich first.
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Another reason the cannot become a Superstate is the difference in lifestyle.
Example 1: The Italians work 9 hours less over their lifetime, than North Europeans.
Example 2. The French retire at age 60. Other Europeans at 65 or more.
Example 3. The Italians have no pension, while the Germans and Dutch do.
If the EU wants to become a federal State, would it not be fair that the Italians and French work more ?
As long as they have not committed themselves to change their life-style it is meaningless to dream about a Federal EU.
What came first the chicken or the egg? So because of this difference, we must give up before even trying to getting started? I do not agree with you.
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The european union is listening all of you. Sorry but I don't see why is necessary an army.
I hope this is helpful: https://www.thenewfederalist.eu/making-europe-stronger-why-the-eu-needs-a-common-army
Sorry but my current country(spain) not the country that I'd really want(The Republic of Catalonia, as a 51,5 % of catalans voted in this year), spends 20.000 M of euros in military purposes, but I personally would prefer that they invest all this money in scientific research. I want peace for europe, and prosperity. Not war. I would only like a common army if then europe would spend less in military purposes.
Anyway, countries(not people) would resist themselves to follow your proposal, because selling arms gives them a lot of money and influence, and it's even a way to have dyplomatic relations(United states and France with Morocco, for instance).
I half agree with you. Money spend on research is better than money on defense. A strong defense is only the triumph of a strong economy. First seek strong economy, then defense.
There are a very large sum of money that just waiting to be picked up. It is all the money that Europe are wasting on duplication of research, governmental and national procurements etc. The amount of this money is horrible. It is even horrible to think about what it could bring of education, research and strengthening the economy in a future proof way.
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