Migracija
#TheFutureIsYours Migracijos valdymas naudojantis nuspėjama, subalansuota ir patikima sistema
Die EU sollte sofort den "Flüchtlingsdeal" mit der Türkei beenden.
Pranešti apie netinkamą turinį
Ar šis turinys netinkamas?
Prisijunkite
Galite prisijungti su išorės paskyra.
22 komentarai (-ų)
Turkey is an ennemy. It uses this deal to make a threat. Stop it now and send patrols to Greek border or welcome them.
Pokalbis
Wer ist denn für die Migration verantwortlich? Es ist nicht die EU. Sie persönlich können Verantwortung übernehmen. Spenden Sie mit ihrem eigenen Geld für die Flüchtlinge. Die Flüchtlinge können in der Türkei bleiben, bis in ihren Ländern sich die Lage bessert. Dafür kann die EU einen finanziellen Beitrag an die Türkei leisten. Aber Kinder müssen unterrichtet werden. Erwachsene entweder arbeiten oder ihre Allgemeinbildung verbessern.
You're right, it's not the EUs fault!
The EU is though, directly affected by the immigrations. The problem with all of the isolationists here is, they do not realize, that, for example a deal with Turkey weakens us more than a few more immigrants would.
On the same branch, making Europe a fortress, although tempting, will be more expensive in the long run that getting in and fixing the countries. We need stable neighboring countries to not turn out like the US where we have to invest billions each year.
Matija. Estimates are that 400 million Africans like to immigrate to the EU.
Integrating one non-western immigrant in he EU cost Euro 167.000-. Add also immigrants from other countries.
The issue is not only the situation of the one single immigrant.
The issue is that the Europe threatens to be wiped off the map. A collapsing economy and increase in crime and poverty can be expected. Then there will be no money anymore for foreign aid.
Africa is 7x the area of the EU and is rich in natural resources.
Africans have to develop their own continent. With some aid from the EU.
But the EU has no other option than to completely stop all immigration, except for a few people we really need.
No.
We need to stabilize the countries the people are coming from and make them our allies. That will cost less in the long term.
I do of course not want all those 400 million to come to Europe - it would detrimental for our and their countries economy, but realistically that's not going to happen anyway. I'd definitely take the people who have come here over the Mediterranean by themselves, if you make such a journey, you must be really desperate and that is really not a lot of people if you think about it.
So let's name the problem: Most people we're talking about are coming because of the Syria affairs. Although we probably all agree that more foreign entanglement would be a disaster, we probably need to do something. It is the easiest and cheapest way to stop more immigrants from coming and maybe even persuade some to return. To offset our European entanglement it might be wise to convince the USA to get out of there though...
Anyway, apart from actual refugees (i.e. people who
come to Europe either because they are in immediate danger of being killed or their country being economically so in shambles they cannot lead an acceptable life (or both, as in Syria)) should be taken up in Europe. Apart from that, as long as people already have a job offer or enough money to get by for a while I'd let them in from any country.
your comment it's the best I have ever read here
Matija, the problem with you and all other european liberals is: you just see economics, and you think EVERYONE is a single person, with a single caracter and single behaviors, when IT'S TOTALLY NOT. Colonisation was this, why trying to help undeveloped countries, and it worked quite well! Most of african countries are much worse now without us, sooo the result is: we cannot develope a country if their people dont wanna to develope.
Most african/middle east people just think abou their religion and that's it, they dont care about governement or whatever, and it's also impossible for them been our allies, because they hate us just because we are whites.
And no, most of migrants are not syrians, and most of them are not running from war or whatever, according to Italy and Spain most of migrants come from Marroc, Tunisia and Algeria, 3 relative developped countries.
So: go to study before say all these crazy things
Sehr geehrter Herr Martucci,
1. Sollten Sie bevor Sie jemanden der Geschichte und Politische Bildung studiert vorwerfen er soll sich informieren selbst einmal lernen was Liberalismus ist.
2. Können sie nicht ernst Haft daran glauben das der Imperialismus wirklich das Ziel hatte den Menschen in Afrika zu helfen.
I do not see only economics! I am arguing with economics because I don't believe the argument "just trying to help these people out" would work on you.
This is also not only an economical, but a Geo-political interest.
I, as a European nationalist, have two main aims: The EU taking over as world-leader from the US and not failing at what the US failed at. It is obvious they failed at their immigration model, especially southern border security.
Apart from that, do you really believe most "Most african/middle east people just think abou their religion and that's it"? Many of the people leaving for Europe do so because they are fed up by governments only caring "abou their religion and that's it".
I would like to remind you that not so long ago many of these countries were entirely different to the way they are now.
Believe me, I myself would prefer the people remain in their countries, not because I do not want them here, but because that is the only way for their countries to grow
successful. You can't have an efficient state where every competent person left.
To aid this, there should be many partner programmes which should result in a building of a more democratic, secular and peacfulle state. This state will remain close to the EU and not fall in other hands, such as China.
Lastly, @Oliver Ha
@oliver_haensgen_2 I must call you out as blatantly wrong.
The number of !refugees only, specifically! (other forms of immigration are not being discussed here (see: the title of the main post), but in case you're wondering I currently am in favor of some moderately-strict point-based system) from Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia in 2019 together don't even reach the 30000 mark (source: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SM.POP.REFG.OR?name_desc=false).
To reiterate, the four highest countries on the list are:
Syria, Afghanistan, South Sudan and Myanmar, all with over one million refugees in 2019.
L'argent versé à la Turquie dans le cadre de l'accord EU-Turquie est un énorme gaspillage de l'argent du contribuable européen, puisque ce n'est pas une solution durable, qui traite la cause, mais seulement les symptômes. De plus, nos impôts alimentent un sytème d'emprisonnement et de violence contre les migrants contraire aux droits humains, dans un pays qui bafoue quotidiennement les droits humains, qui humilie impunément nos plus hauts responsables politiques, et qui minimise les crimes de génocide qu'il a commis.
Wenn der Deal beendet wird, werden weit mehr Migranten (Wirtschaftsflüchtlinge) nach Griechenland aufbrechen.
Pokalbis
Die Problematik ist das es Ethisch und Moralisch nicht mehr vertretbar ist Flüchtlinge in einem Land Festzuhalten, welches sich von Tag zu Tag immer mehr in eine Autokratie verwandelt. Zusätzlich finde ich es nicht in Ordnung, dass ein teil meiner Steuern dafür verwendet wird um ein Land in dem Minderheiten immer wieder diskriminiert werden, der Rechtsstaat abgebaut und eine Diktatur aufgebaut wird dafür zu bezahlen Menschen auf der Flucht fest zu halten. Deshalb bin ich ebenfalls der Meinung, dass die EU den Deal mit der Türkei beenden sollte und, unter Menschen würdigen Bedingungen, Asyl suchenden dieses gewähren sollte.
True. Only it would be better to phase-out the deal instead of stopping it immediately to give everyone some time to adapt to the new situation.
Mir ist durchaus bewusst das die türkische Regierung gewählt wurde jedoch weiß ich auch von mehreren Bekannten welche türkische Staatsbürger sind das bei den Wahlen es immer wieder vorkam das andere Personen den Wählern in die wahlkabine folgten. Was nicht gerade für eine faire Wahl spricht des weiteren werden oppositionsparteien immer wieder unter starken Druck gesetzt. Und was die Medien freiheit angeht sprechen die Hausdurchsuchungen bei der Tageszeitung Hürriyet für sich. Was die Xenophoben Anschuldigungen betrifft muss ich sie leider enttäuschen das keiner meiner Arbeitskollegen oder Bekannten welche als Flüchtlinge zu uns kamen diese Erwartungen erfüllen kann.
Pokalbis
The cause is that the EU leadership fails to carry out it's fundamental duties: guard their border and protect it's own people. Even 30 years after Schengen was introduced.
First, laws should be established that the external EU borders can be effectively guarded.
If immigrants arrive at the EU border without the proper papers they will be promptly returned or jailed.
Second, immigrants and refugees have to apply for papers at an EU Embassy.
Thirdly, the EU/UN must set up camps in Africa or Asia where illegal immigrants be sent.
Immigration should not be part of humanitaire aid. Humanitarian aid should be delivered directly to Africa / Asia. The Turkey deal should eventually be abolished.
These people without papers are mostly the ones in most desperate need.
They also can not apply at an embassy always.
No, they're mostly marrocans, tunisians, algerians, according to minister of interior from Spain and Italy.
Just to let you know we dont have wars in these 3 countries and they're much more developped that for exemple: Brazil or Argentine and most of south america countries, anyway we dont see south american people invading us
Der Flüchtlingsdeal mit der Türkei ist und war zwar nicht optimal, aber sinnvoll, um illegale Migration zumindest einzudämmen. Dass die türkische Regierung unter Erdogan diesen Flüchtlingsdeal als Druckmittel einsetzt ist nicht gut. Die EU muss natürlich mit diesem Mann auch über mehr Völkerverständigung und Zusammenarbeit sprechen. Der Flüchtlingsdeal hat in Ansätzen systemische Züge von Migrationsregulierung.
Against without this migrants will return to invade us
Įkeliami komentarai...