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In the early post-Cold War period, the relationship between the E.U., the U.S. and China seemed to be mutually beneficial. That is no longer the case: both the E.U. and the U.S. have tense relations with Beijing. The accelerating U.S.-China rivalry is threatening the global peace in the international society, heightening areas of conflict, and causing polarisation across the globe.
This poses a number of challenges to the European Union, especially its citizens, who will bear the consequences of greater tensions and restrictions at the international level. That is why, European citizens should discuss and express their say on the role the E.U. should play in the US-China rivalry. In particular, should the European Union:
1. Stimulate the Chinese government to implement domestic democratic reforms, such as the ratification and compliance to international human rights treaties?
2. Collaborate with and support progressive movements in China?
3. Support the establishment of a league of democratic nations to design democratic solutions to the US-China rivalry?
Tuairisc faoin imeacht
The EU should play an active role in preventing greater escalation between the U.S. and China, chiefly by actualising its aspiration of a strategic autonomy in the world. The EU should be careful in the way it develops its economic relations with China, which should be balanced by a value-based foreign policy.Smaointe gaolmhara
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36 comments
Comhrá
🤣 Is there a rivalry between US leftists and China? I think they are colluding with China in fact.
Hey @Oliviana, what are US right-wingers doing with China, then?
Well, for once, they dont share the same communist ideology with China. 🤷♀️ Unlike the leftists who are ideologically like China, woke, cancel culture, socialist. Well, China did hate Trump the most and supported Biden. So I guess that whatever the non-communists do, it pissing China. 🤷♀️
Comhrá
I think it is an important question. As long as the EU is divided and weak, it will remain a chessboard of real global powers (i.e. US and China). The European Union should find its identity and accomplish a successful political union on the right ideological foundation, which is neither extreme liberalism nor extreme nationalism. Only then could the united Europe step up as a political actor globally, and play a pragmatic role, which is business first. Only because the US' Pacific interests are harmed potentially, the EU need not burn bridges.
Extreme liberalism wouldnt create problems among people but might lead to anarchy. It's not sustainable. But a small government is better, dealing with global big things. Problem is that the so called liberals are in fact iliberals. And the so called progressive are socialists. Socialism is NOT LIBERALISM NOR PROGRESS but authoritarianism and regress, this is why ppl reject it. What liberalism is in equality like in communism? Or hiring on political identity quotas & not on merit? Or bullying people to agree with a total non-sense that genitals dont matter and a male is a female just by claiming so? Or in the one trillion standards EU is suffocating people with? Extreme liberalism (far libertarian) means u respect people are going to straightforward reject what they dont agree with, but the so called "liberals" are calling it hatespeech and want to even imprison ppl. Standards need to not be more than absolutely necessary &EU should focus on big things not on suffocating its citizens
@ferenc_graff, it is a pity you could not join the event. I think that your remarks show that there is still some soul-searching to do within the EU so as to then project a coherent policy outward. Make sure to join the next I will organise on this topic and, if you want, follow my profile to get the notification!
Comhrá
Good question. Even though I do not think tensions will escalate agressively, EU must be concerned battles in 21st century are more than economicals, are all about data, resources and based on social needs (social as an entity, not as individuals). The power is now "macroeconomic", but not based on economy; so politicians have lost perspective. Reason why we are seeing so many restrictions in our rights & freedoms: because of the Social wellbeing. The world is approaching to two new paradigms:
- An AI controlled socialism, and the fight is about who will control it.
- To expand mankind to other planets and try new societies.
EU should focus on those two points, and leave the rest to do whatever they do.
For the first, EU should change its point of view to an individual one, to a citizen's level. To do that it is needed more integration. A single country, with different regions and cultures (preserving existing cultures).
For the second point, to plan for long term and invest on R&D.
Society is made by individuals. When you want to control the outcome or the society, you want a great degree of control on individuals. It never ends up well. When did prohibition ever work? They say "united in our diversity" but their politics are extremely hostile to diversity. It's only a certain diversity they like, incidently not the one liked by the vast majority of people. It is what it is. The problem I see is that the ppl have another view on "united in diversity" than them. AI should serve the people, not something artificially constructed for the people. And yes, I agree, the debate is 1. Are we going China style AI socialism (that's why I dont see any rivalry between US and China rather than global domination, but still, the same system). 2. Are we going in a different style which doesnt imply losing freedom?
Correct. I believe the same.
@simon_millan_bellido, I see a major problem in your suggestion. The EU is deeply interconnected in the global economy of things, data, and ideas, and I do not see how it can focus on internal issues only, since the rivalry has profound impact politically, economically and not only.
It is easy, just see other countries that do not interfere there, like New Zealand, Canada or Brazil, for example. I do not say to disconnect entirely, just to focus on our important things, like revert climate change, taking care of the environment and wildlife, our own cohesion, individual rights and freedom, protect democracy (full effective separation of powers), protect every historical heritage, guarantee no corruption nor bribaries, nor lobbies, move to new energies, help countries of origin of illegal inmigrants to transition to democracies, help european technology companies to compete against gigants like the Big Five and Chinese ones (Tescent, Alibaba, Huawei...), save DNA for future revival of extint species, research on new foods (printed, genetic meats...), help industrialize other EU areas less developed, invest on genetics, create a panEU healthcare system equal for all...so many things to focus on, than wasting time and citizen's money into other power's problems.
Comhrá
Peace is the most precious good a society has, in that sense, China has been a better example in terms of international relations. We should deal with both equally, rejecting blackmails from any part.
Cristiano, I agree. EU needs to accelerate that military integration and create the EU army to protect EU boarders. EU doesnt have an army, how are you going to deal with heavely militatised countries when you dont have an army? We rely on NATO and NATO relies on US. We need our own army. Not saying to give up on NATO, I'm saying Europeans need their own army which can be a NATO member.
I agree, but the EU first needs a legitimate, but united leadership. That is the precondition to a powerful army that Europe could easily have, if there is a political will.
There is Pesto, but it's going to slow to be fair. Integrating 25 armies is not a easy thing. And also we need a referendum or smth, we need to see how much support socialism has in the EU. The neo-liberals are calling themselves liberals/progressive, but they are not, they are socialists/regressive. Scarry really. Some are straightforward communists. So they renamed socialism into liberalism, which is literally, misrepresentation. So we need to call it what it is, socialism, and see what Member States do support it if any (I mean the citizens). And if citizens dont want socialism, then how are we having the current European Commission? We need a right wing European Commission and I dont care about US and the global agenda. If Europeans are not leftiests, we cannot be bullied into global leftism. 🤷♀️ Yes, I know Renew is calling itself central-right, it's a joke, they are leftists. I mean BLM identity US BS leftist, socialists, marxists and so on.
Comhrá
Unfortunately I believe EU should not forget option #4: EU should prepare itself for a war between USA and China and prepare a common policy on the matter. A war between USA and China will also test the concept of Strategic Autonomy. EU must be able to deal with the fact that the sea lanes in the South China Sea could be blocked by hostilities and Taiwan could become a battlefield.
Preparing for war is not a good idea. Preparing to prevent war is a better idea. The EU exists on this premise: to prevent war. Let us not forget what war actually is.
To be prepare to avoid war you need to be prepared for a war. I dont know on what premise you think EU exists on, but if EU cant protect its citizens and boarders, than it is not worth anything. And protecting boarders and citizens doesnt mean being blackmailed into things or asking americans to do the job on their terms.
It is an endless circle of violence then, since there will always be someone prepared for a non existing war. Preparation for war can be various, preparation for war does not only consist of how big your defence force is. Thus it is - atleast in my opinion - necessary to have good diplomatic relations towards other nations which are also possible rivals. That is why I am also unsure about what the European Union should do about the China - US conflict. It is no longer possible to stay neutral as we did the last years. Also regarding the current diplomatic stance of china towards the EU, it is clear that the EU must take action in some way - I am not sure how though. Eventually cooperative sanctions of the EU and the US towards China would be a possible first step.
The best way to be prepared for war is indeed to protect your citizens. This means prioritizing their welfare, food, housing, security. That way the institutions of the whole EU are supported by their citizens. Failure to do this enables foreign powers to influence and take over the minds and hearts of citizens, making political takeovers much easier. Yes, sure, you need some military power. Every country has some military power, but spending all your resources on weapons while your citizens starve (and some are very poor now) leads to a fragmented society which is not worth protecting in its current state. Think about North Korea at the extreme end of this. So a balance needs to be struck where resources are spent on defence, but citizens also need to feel that they are living in countries and societies worth defending. I think we agree, broadly, but we are approaching this issue from different perspectives.
No Kathleen, socialism is not the best way nor a priority, socialism never worked and it's awful and leads to communism which mass killed more people than the Nazis. Anyway, remind me when Europeans voted for socialism? We didnt. In fact it's not even under consideration, I never voted and will never vote for socialism. So your priority is socialism, my priority is to never ever end up living in it. I dont need nor want the State to feed me, clean my house and exercise great control on my life since I am not disabled nor an imbecile, I dont need welfare nor EU to build me and give things. I buy what I want from free markets. EU job is to defend borders, threats, tackle illegal immigration, say to US leftists to back off, and so on, big global projects, small interference into people's lives.
Joshua, well US is always ready for war, why UE shouldnt be? I dont know how great is China's threat to EU, other than that I dont care about US. In fact I am extremely americanophobe since those corrupted violent socialists called Democrats won, if they did, in the US. Mostly cause US under Biden and Kamala are more friendly with China. Under Trump it was a true conflict, not under the Democrats. Democrats are cortupted, psychotic, evil. Are worse than China and Russia. Much worse. So I think that EU should not collude with socialists, that includes US.
Comhrá
Europa muss endlich aufhören, sich in Kleinstaaterei zu verlieren. Wir können nur vereint in der globalisierten Welt bestehen. Dazu muss die EU eigene Machtkompetenzen bekommen, unabhängig von den nationalen Regierungen. Dazu gehört leider auch eine europäische Armee, die mehr als nur Symbolwert hat. Europa muss selbst Großmacht werden, um nicht Spielball der anderen Großen (USA, China, Russland usw.) zu bleiben. Spätestens unter Trump haben wir gesehen, dass die USA nicht unsere Freunde sind. Wir sind ihre Verbündeten, solange wir ihre Ideen teilen und als nützliche Idioten dienen, ansonsten sind wir Konkurrenten.
Die nationalen Egoismen müssen enden und wir müssen als Ganzes unsere Interessen gegen die der anderen vertreten. Gelingt uns das nicht, werden wir in spätestens 50 Jahren keine Hauptrolle mehr spielen. Das muss endlich allen klar werden.
Genau meine Gedanken! Entscheidend ist jedoch, sich auf das richtige ideologische Fundament zu stellen, das weder Liberalismus noch Konservatismus ist.
Comhrá
We have to rely on confrontation where needed, but also on cooperation, where useful and on competition where EU can be strong. EU must invest into modern technology, therefore a strong EU cooperation concerning industrial policy based on technology is necessary in order to be competitive. Cooperation would be good in relation to Africa, where we should bring common benefits to the African countries. And of course in relation to climate change. But we should demand from China to invest less in coal and more into renewables. Where we need clear confrontation is the Chinese longing for a state controlled system of digital media. We must prevent, that China is the rule maker concerning the tech industry including the content. And EU must strengthen the cooperation with other Asian countries not necessarily as an alliance against China but as forming an alliance China has to respect. Hannes Swoboda
Bottom line is that the European Union has to act in unison and independently from others on the global stage. For that, the 27 member states have to find the same voice and the same message. However, it is quite impossible in the current ideological and political system. At the moment, it is even difficult to say what interests the EU pursue globally, because indecision and clumsiness are getting in the way all the time (e.g. vaccine deals, open doors policy).
I agree but we should not despair. This EU conference is also a chance to mobilize voices for a more united approach. Let us hope we do not need an outside intervention or crisis in our neighborhood which is forcing us to act more united.
I agree having a common politic front is key. I wonder who does really want in every EU country to act on its own, totally apart from the EU? I would say our respective politicians from everyone's countries. I would dare to say standard EU citizens would not care to opt for a single EU government instead of so many nationals as today. What an amount of public money savings it would be! I see my own politicians as far from me than the Brussels ones. So, why would I care if the politicians that govern me are based in Madrid, Rome, Paris, Berlin or in other capital, or centralized in Brussels? Their interest is to just live from the public affairs and have their lives fully guaranteed for the rest of their lives. That is why I think tensions will dissapear in EU if countries would dissapear in favour of regions, and create a new democracy based on representants from those regions. Ancient Greece and Rome had amazing examples to copy, like the division of demos made by Cleisthenes reforms
Well, lets take the green deal. EU is showing off it gives money to recover from pandemic but in reality, it doesnt give one penny. Money are conditioned on a billion standards created by God know who and on what some unelected bureaucrats like, and these bureaucrats have a politic agenda and little knowledge about people in different countries and what they want. They dont care what ppl want, they care to push their agenda. Negotiations with Romania for example were awful, makes you vote for Roexit. They said that Romania allocated to much funds for infrastructure. Well, it needs the infrastructure, who are they to tell you that you cant build what you need. And this is an example, rest assured other member states will have same problems. I will make a bet right now, from the "great" amount of money allocated to member states to recover from pandemic, the absorption will be very little, they will reject project and refuse funding. Give this ppl more power, like really, no.
We had an interesting discussion on these issues you can listen to at iipvienna.com.
We should be critically about China’s human rights record. But as we saw at the recent climate summit, there are many issues where we need to cooperate. And convening the alliance of democracies not all countries which are critical towards China are real democracies. Mr Modi in India, the Vietnamese government etc are not real democrats. But certainly we should strengthen the ties with them!
Postáil
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